Be the strategic partner businesses need ft. Chris Ortega (Fresh FP&A)
Hey. So it's great to have Chris, with us today. We're really excited about having series where we speak to, people who really get this space that we're looking at in this fractional CFO world. And, Chris, it's great to meet you. Why don't you give us an introduction and tell us a bit about yourself?
Chris Ortega:Yeah. Hey, Colin. Thank you so much, man, for this opportunity. My name is Chris Ortega. I run a global fractional CFO and advisory service company called Fresh FP and A.
Chris Ortega:And, basically, what we do is we help small to medium sized businesses provide in seeking financial clarity and growth to help grow their organizations. I've spent over 20 plus years in accounting, finance, FP and A of Financial Leadership, primarily focused on building, growing, and scaling finance organizations. Super excited for this conversation today. Colin, thanks so so much for having me, man.
Colin Hewitt:Great. Well, it's great to have you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how did you get into this space? Like, what, you know, most people, it seems like it's probably been an evolution, of of a career I imagine.
Chris Ortega:Yeah. So for me, like I said before, I spent over 20 years in accounting, finance, PNA Financial Leadership, primarily in high growth businesses, so software, technology, retail, ecommerce, and pharma companies. Most recently, I was at an international marketing platform company, helped build the America's operations up to scale, and then we sold that off to SAP. And then after that, Collin, that was, like, my 4th acquisition I was a part of. So bid coming in, you typically before starting Fresh App P and A, I was always the 1st finance hire.
Chris Ortega:I would come in. There's there's nothing built. No processes, no people. They maybe had outsource accounting and building strength and scale that. So after that pretty big exit, which was the largest exit I was a part of, Colin, I realized 2 things in my career.
Chris Ortega:The first thing I realized in my career is I know what it takes to transform and scale finance organizations. Like, I've been doing that. I know the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between. And the second thing is I felt like there needed to be a fresh perspective brought to finance. So that's why a little under 3 years ago, I started Fresh FP and A.
Chris Ortega:And starting Fresh FP and A and getting down this fractional journey, it wasn't just like, cut off the lights and I went from, like, a full time job to doing this. I was doing, part of fresh at p and a consulting and advisory work for about 5 or 6 years before doing that. It was what it was my side hustle. Right? So I had my full time job, I was building and growing software companies, and then I was also doing this on the side to help friends, help family, help other people that reach out.
Chris Ortega:So I mean, just small little projects here and there. Maybe it's a fundraising or maybe it's a rolling forecast or making them, helping them look at their cash flow or get money. Really like learning and doing a lot of project based work before taking the leap of faith and going at it full time. And really the catalyst for me, like I said was, you know, after spending, all this years and building and growing these SMB businesses up to scale and to exit, I really wanted to give back, and I really wanted to give back that skills, that passion, that talent, that expertise, and that knowledge that I've gained over those 20 years to really help these SME businesses grow. So that was the catalyst for me, and those are the two things that really spurred me in the leap of starting fresh FDNA.
Colin Hewitt:Yeah. Also, so many sense makes too much sense in in terms of what we're hearing at the moment. And, Chris, one of the questions, like, I was just spending the weekend with a bunch of other CEOs and founders, and, you know, really like, so many of them were just saying, we're hearing about other businesses that are starting to take their first steps with, like, I don't have the money or the budget to bring in a full time CFO, but, maybe this fractional CFO concept could work for me too. Like, are you seeing an increase in that as well? Or, on on what when do you sort of see a a business start to to sort of take their first steps for them?
Chris Ortega:Yeah. Absolutely. I think the so taking a Colin, let's go bigger than just a fractional CFO. I think one of the biggest changes in transition of the fractional resource, I think, in my opinion, happened during the pandemic. Right?
Chris Ortega:When the pandemic happened, there was a lot of things, particularly a finance that, like, shook up. Right? Because you had a lot more businesses. You had a lot of sales and marketing people during the pandemic that said, look. We don't know how to navigate this uncertainty and challenge.
Chris Ortega:We don't know how long it's gonna last. We don't know the strategies, the tactics, the metrics, the milestones, the execution, the plans that we need to do around it. So those CFOs that stepped up and helped navigate organizations through that continued challenge uncertainty that even still we're seeing today, that, like, set a whole new baseline of what the business expected from finance. Before, right, that that mindset of what finance brought to the business was, hey. Finance brought us the numbers.
Chris Ortega:Right? We were the number we were the number. We were the scorekeepers of the organization. So I think one big piece to to latch on is that value proposition changed. Now businesses want finance, they want CFOs, they want FP and A, they want accounting, they want anybody that they interact with from the finance organization to say, hey.
Chris Ortega:How are you creating value? So that was one, I think, like, really big, macro factor that happened. And then you look at these businesses now. Right? To me, I've always recommended there is, like when you look at the going down the road of getting a full time CFO in the labor market the way that it is, right, we've done estimates and we've looked at source data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and you're gonna be spending somewhere between 500 to $750,000.
Chris Ortega:Right? That's inclusive of salary. That's inclusive of recruiting time. That's inclusive of paying the recruiters. That's onboarding.
Chris Ortega:That's bonuses. That's options. That's benefits. You take in the whole package of bringing in a full time CFO in an organization, it's a pretty significant investment. Right?
Chris Ortega:And if you get that investment wrong, right, say you hired the wrong CFO. You thought you wanted you needed a strategic CFO, but you're like, hey. We really need somebody tactical in the weeds. So you may if you make that miss hire, take that 5 to $750,000 number, times it by 5 to 10 x of value that that has cost the business. Right?
Chris Ortega:That's a big, big, big investment for people to go into.
Colin Hewitt:And a
Chris Ortega:lot of doing. SMB organizations, they just don't have that money to be able to spend, but not even the money aspect of it. They're not even sophisticated enough to need a full time CFO. But here's where the silver line and the opportunity happens for the fractional CFO. Those are the people, like Fresh FP and A, can come in and say, hey.
Chris Ortega:We know the pitfalls. We know how to build your foundation pillars, which are gonna be your people, your process, and your partnership, and we also have the experience of building your scaling pillars, which are platform, performance, and profit optimization strategies. Right? And now you have access to this person that has been there, done that, know the good, the bad, the ugly, and they can help advise you throughout your journey, and you're paying a fraction of the cost. You're paying a fraction of the cost for that value, for that experience, for that knowledge.
Chris Ortega:This is where it's a a a you know, I sit down with CEOs and business owners and founders of SME businesses, and it's like, you know, they look at the value prop. They're like, man, why why would you not do that? Why would you not wanna bring in somebody early to say, yep. You may not wanna do this solution because you're gonna outgrow this, and when you outgrow this, this this is the problems that are come along the way. And let's be honest.
Chris Ortega:Right? A lot of CEOs, business owners, and founders, finance is not their expertise. They're like, oh, man. Like, when it comes to the numbers, when it comes to the budgets, and it comes to the forecast, it's like, I don't wanna do that. I wanna be focused on either the product.
Chris Ortega:I wanna be focused on the go to market. I wanna be focused on the the marketing, the sales. I don't wanna be down in the finance, but I need that strategic level expertise for somebody to help guide me. So and that it not only becomes a a value proposition, but it also becomes a great opportunity to get the right people at the right time of your organization. That way you can scale.
Chris Ortega:Right? I always look at bringing on a fractional, whether it's the CFO or it's a chief human resource officer or it's a marketing officer or or it's a sales or it's a revenue or it's a operations. Think about the foundations of those functional areas you wanna build and think about the finance organization as a house. You wanna make sure that you have that foundation of your house, of your finance organization built correctly from day 1. Because the time, energy, effort, and resources it's gonna take when you have to redo that foundation 5, 6, 10 years from now, it's very costly to a business.
Chris Ortega:So that's my insights on the justification and the rise of, the fractional c f the fractional CFO.
Colin Hewitt:Yeah. Absolutely. It makes so much sense. I think I mean, what would you say to somebody who was maybe skeptical, and they were like, you know, my accountant does that for me. My CPA takes care of that.
Colin Hewitt:You know, I've got the numbers, and then I've got somebody internally who can use a spreadsheet and gives us our management reports. What would you say to them if they're thinking, Do I really need this role? There's other things I could be spending money on, like marketing that that maybe would be more important.
Chris Ortega:Yeah. So for me, I I see a lot of CEOs, business owners, and founders that we have that come on as clients as fresh risk fresh FP and A, and they deal with this concept called fractional CFO remorse. And I'll break that down of what that means. Basically, what fractional c CFO remorse is is, like, you do see the prevalence of it. I'm not throwing shade, but you see a lot of people that that call themselves fractional CFOs, and it's like, they worked as a staff accountant for, like, 4 years.
Chris Ortega:And I'm like, how does that how does that translate to to, you know, you did accounting to you're a CFO. Right? And you can advise businesses. And I think a lot of times, the skeptical comes down to a nevermore set they deal with is a lot of times accounting is very history looking. They're looking backwards.
Chris Ortega:When you look at the accounting function of itself, right, like, people who are probably closing their February books, so they did that last week. They closed their previous month. That that tells you what do you say you're gonna do and what did you do, which are 2 really important business questions. But when you're leading a high growth company and you're making these pets and you're making these investments, you wanna be thinking about what is the future of this gonna look like? And in my career, there's a huge departure between a CFO and a controller, right?
Chris Ortega:Like, I've always I came up in the accounting space, I will show everybody, like, my Ernst and Young branding, but I started in public accounting, in accounting, and I quickly realized that my value and where I'm gonna be the most passionate and provide the most experience and value to people is gonna be on the strategic side. Like, these are people thinking about, hey. If you're making that investment in marketing, how are you quantifying the ROI? Are these the right channels? How are we measuring success?
Chris Ortega:Right? What is this investment gonna lead to? A lot of times, that fractional CFO remorse that comes in with these CEO owners, founders, and and and CEOs is they realize that they just hired somebody to look at the past. Here's the thing. I'm not discounting the value of having solid accounting.
Chris Ortega:That is critical. There is no CFO that's gonna fractional CFO or full time CFO that's gonna be successful without solid tactical operations or accounting. That is a necessity. So a lot of times, I say, look. Before you even need me, you need to make sure you have accounting taken care of, because I'm not gonna.
Chris Ortega:You don't want a CFO doing your monthly journal entries and and reconciling your bank statement. Right? That's not the value of what you're gonna be paying way too much, and that person's gonna be extremely bored. Right? So for me, it's about making that investment and thinking about it to say, not only of the business we want now, What does the business look like a year from now, 18 months from now, 2 years from now?
Chris Ortega:And then who's gonna help me from the finance organization set the vision, the strategy, the tactics, the metrics, the milestones, and execution. Who's gonna create this finance funnel of future, future, like, opportunity that we have to make sure we capitalize on that. So to me, that's where that that element comes in there. Right? And that these are the people that have I mean, we've been there.
Chris Ortega:We've done that. We have the skills, passion, talents, expertise to help you guide you in the future. That's really the true value.
Colin Hewitt:Mhmm. Yeah. That's amazing. So what like, where would you say where would you say like, is it just the incarnate or the CPA and the, and then the c personal CFO? Or do you need do you typically see another person like a financial controller or an ops person in the mix?
Colin Hewitt:Like, what's your dream team team when it comes to, you know, like, I'm not talking about a huge company. I'm talking about, like, a 20 person company. Like, what would you like to see in the mix if you're or what's the what's an example of some great teams that you worked in in the past?
Chris Ortega:Yeah. So some great teams that I'll I'll tell one from a ins like, working in high growth businesses, and I also share a little bit how Fresh App PNA works with our clients. So, I'll share the first example. For me, I've always I've been in part of big finance teams, right, but I've also seen and where I think really growth orientated organizations are, I've had really lean teams. And where we've been lean is because we leverage technology to do a lot of the low value stuff.
Chris Ortega:I would say if you're a high growth business somewhere between 10 to about $30,000,000 and you're like, hey, Chris. You know what? A fractional CFO doesn't sound good, but I wanna kinda build a solid foundation organization from scratch. You need 4 people to part in that. Right?
Chris Ortega:The first two people, and I've always have, I've always had my lean teams, I've always had a great staff accountant, and I've had either, like, a junior controller or a controller person. That way, there's a person that's dedicated to the tactics, and there's a person dedicated to the strategy when it comes to tactical operations. Right? I've got someone doing the work, and I've got someone super knowledgeable that can communicate the strategic side of the county. Right?
Chris Ortega:This may be, like, implementing ASC 606 or there's a county pronouncement or there's any county change. I've got somebody implementing it, and I've got somebody informing the organization and informing our team around it. It. So that would be my starting lineup for if you're bringing everything in house from a tactical operations perspective. On the strategic side, on the finance side, I've always had a FP and a analyst, maybe a senior FP and a person, and I've either had a manager of finance or a VP of finance in that area.
Chris Ortega:Right? Now you've got that person trying to taking care of the finance inside the business, and then you've also got that strategic leader that the controller reports to, the financial analyst report to. And I some of the times where I've seen it be very valuable is I've had finance members inside the organization. So I've had marketing ops. I've had sales ops.
Chris Ortega:I've had other people inside the organization, inside of different functional areas, report to me in finance. That to me has been I've had operational people inside the sales and marketing, which to me, for any growth business are gonna be probably 2 of the most important areas of the business. Sales and more sales, marketing, HR, and finance. That is what you need to have expertise in as you're growing business. So that's been, like, my prototype for in house team.
Chris Ortega:A staff accountant, a controller, assistant controller, junior FP and A, or senior FP and A person, manager of finance, VP of finance, or director of finance, and then maybe one is sales and marketing. They're they're like a rev ops FP and a person. Those are usually, like, my my black ops inside the business. They're like my double agents. They're, like, reporting to the business, but I'm also have a dotted line with them.
Chris Ortega:So that's on the in house side. Now typically, how we work with clients at Fresh App P and A is all of my fractionals, we have a pot of resources. So my pot of resources, I have 5 people that help support me and the clients that I serve. 2 of them are gonna be 1 is a junior, and 1 is a senior FP and a resource. Right?
Chris Ortega:So that is having my tactical. They're doing the modeling. They're updating the forecast. They're really into the modeling, into the analysis, working with the tools. The 3rd resource I have, this is a systems person.
Chris Ortega:So this is a person that knows NetSuite, Intact, QuickBooks, Power BI, Tableau, Power Automate, Zapier. They're a very systems orientated person. And then the next resource that I have is gonna be a director of finance. Right? That's my pot and including me as a CFO, that's a pot of 5 resources that we're giving and serving our clients.
Chris Ortega:It's not just me, but I have an entire team. And typically with my other fractionals across my unload, that's a per Fresh FP and A, they have a similar concept. So not only are you getting access to a CFO, a strategic level CFO, but now you've got this whole supporting engine of resources that are helping support your organization from a strategic perspective to help you look towards the future. So that's been the ideal model for us. That's really worked for us in helping support our clients at Fresh FP and a.
Colin Hewitt:Brilliant. And do do you ever see clients going back to, like, I'm just gonna get a full time to you. Oh, no. Or do you think, like, that is the new way, that is the new model to just keep the traction all rolled? I mean, maybe you're biased because that's your thing, but have you seen where people say, we're kind of we're ready to to bring all those people in heist more people, like, grow you guys?
Chris Ortega:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely. Right? Like, since we work with SMB businesses, I I think, typically, when you start to get to 70, 80,000,000, $90,000,000 of revenue inside your organization, and maybe you just brought on your series a and you brought more institutional investors, they're gonna want somebody in house.
Chris Ortega:They're gonna want some and even at that stage, the cost justification warrants having someone in house. And typically, whether that's a VP of finance or they bring the CFO in house, typically, when they make that hire, they're gonna wanna build out their internal team themselves. So there definitely is a destination where organizations reach, but it's also, like, don't pull that trigger too early. Because a lot of times I've seen it. You know, we've had clients that have left the business, not because there's been a bad relationship.
Chris Ortega:It's just because it's like we've ultimately sat down with that CEO and founder and said, hey. You probably don't need a full time CFO, but you probably do need a manager of finance. You probably need someone in between that piece of. You're not ready at the stage to need that full time person, but maybe a middle ground. Right?
Chris Ortega:So we've had that situation with clients, and we've also, like, helped that same client find that person. Given our network and and people and connections that we've had, there's been clients that we've lost that we found a person to replace them in a manager or finance position that they said, hey. Thank you so much for, like, finding the talent to give us this position, and we still wanna work with you in an advisory capacity. So to me, the most important part I would think of any fractional is, and particularly for us at Fresh FP and A, is we wanna be part of that journey. Right?
Chris Ortega:That's the number one thing for me. If when people ask me, like, hey, Chris, where do you see Fresh App PNA 3, 5, 6 years from now? I'm like, as long as we're still part of the journey, and as long as we're still making an impact, that's all I really care about. Like, I look back over and my team looks back over our our our careers that we had. I have a fractional CFO in San Francisco that helped take the pharma company public, so we got deep experience.
Chris Ortega:And the number one thing we come down to is we love being part of the journey. I wanna see you go from 5 to to 15 to 25 to $50,000,000. I wanna help you write that journey and see your business scale and grow. So I think there's definitely a a a timeline, but I also caution those CEOs, business owners, and founders, making it too early, you're not gonna really get the biggest impact. Making it too late, you're probably gonna be scrambling to try to bring everything in house.
Chris Ortega:It's it's definitely a definite, delicate balance to manage for sure.
Colin Hewitt:Yeah. No. That makes that makes a lot of sense. Very cool. You just you can go from that, like, all the way out from 5.
Colin Hewitt:The the whole journey, I think it's really that's that's really exciting because a lot a lot of CFOs might not be able to make that. They might be used to being in a certain size and a lot of a lot of execs across the board. You know, you'll hire somebody who they're used to being a certain size company and the ability to scale is huge. So I really like it from my point of view as well. Chris, I I wanted to ask you about cash flow.
Colin Hewitt:Obviously, a flow we think, like, cash is king, but it'd be great to get your perspective on it. Like, where do you see like, where do you start with cash flow with your businesses? Like, what tools do you suggest? Like, where have you seen people make mistakes with this? I'm I'm you know, our most of our clients are probably our customers are probably in that, like, they're 2,000,000 up to 20,000,000, scale.
Colin Hewitt:So, you know, not we're thinking more on that smaller end rather than in the the huge end, but it's great to get your anecdotes and thoughts on that.
Chris Ortega:Yeah. I in leading high growth businesses are working and and working with clients to high growth industries. Right? Cash profits are a dream. Cash is a reality.
Chris Ortega:Right? I tell our clients all the time, it does not matter doing a 36 month forecast if you can't pay payroll next week. None of that matters. Right? So for me, that's cash burn and cash runway for every client across Fresh FP and A.
Chris Ortega:Those are, like, 1 to 2 priority number 1 and priority number 2. Right? Now breaking that down a little deeper, I think this is where a lot of people that measure cash burn and look at cash. Right? You look at traditionally, this is from an accounting perspective.
Chris Ortega:You look at the indirect statement of cash flows. Right? I'll I never liked and this is yes. I'm a recovering CPA. I'm a retired CPA, and I know all my accountants are gonna be, like, throwing throwing their calculators at me right now.
Chris Ortega:But I think the indirect statement of cash flows is the wrong statement to look at for cash. It's it's wrong. Throw it out the window. Don't use it. The most important place to look at cash is look at your bank account.
Chris Ortega:Like, that's the reality. Right? When you're looking at the indirect method, you're adding this back, you're looking at the changes of accounts payable, and, it went up. No. We look at hard dollars, and we look at the bank trend.
Chris Ortega:That's money you're paying out and money you're getting in. And all of that is the direct method of cash flow. So typically when we work and advise our clients around cash burn and cash runway, we're like, hey. Statement of Cash Flow is a good guy, but we're gonna do the analysis, do the planning, and do the forecasting, and do the modeling on your bank account, because that's real dollars coming in and out. That's real dollars you're getting in, that's real dollars that you're paying out.
Chris Ortega:So I think that's one place that a lot of organizations fail is like, man, like, get into the details. Like, get into your AP, get into your collections, get into your contract, Get into everything that's driving money inside your bank account and money that's driving outside your bank account. And the second guideline that we always recommend our clients given a lot of the continued economic uncertainty and just overall challenges that a lot of business are facing, talent, you you see all the the different macro factors that are affecting businesses. We advise our clients to keep at a minimum 16 to 24 months of runway. Right?
Chris Ortega:Like, how are you making sure that we're map we have, investments in place that we're looking at fundraising strategy, we're looking at capital strategies, we're looking at debt strategies, we're looking at ways to make sure, at a minimum, we're keeping 16 to 18 month runway for our businesses. Right? Like, that is a gold standard for us. Is gone are the days of, like you look at the VC private equity and strategic market. It used to be a lot easier pre 2019 to go raise money.
Chris Ortega:That's really, really difficult now, so a lot of businesses are saying, how can we make sure we operationalize our cash flow, our inflow, and our outflow to make sure we're getting the best out of that. And that's where you learn the business. Right? This gets into another place. It's like, go learn the business.
Chris Ortega:Go learn your contracting. Go learn your contract management process on your on your AR side for your customers. Right? Like, that's a big lever. And a lot of times, you know, it could be offering, you know, discounts to get accelerated cash.
Chris Ortega:And some people may look at it as like, man, Chris, you're given a 10% discount for somebody to pay quarterly. Like, won't they have a revenue impact? Yeah. They have a revenue impact in it, but I care about getting the gas right now. I I care about accelerating the cash.
Chris Ortega:The cash is more important to investments we need to make right now, and we can make those investments that are gonna yield a higher than 10% return inside the business, so let's do that. Right? So to me, that's where and a lot of times, you know, organizations this is where I think technology becomes a huge value add for fractals and just overall CFO. Right? Traditionally, when you think of the FP and A as a as a whole, FP and A has always been financial planning and analysis.
Chris Ortega:To me and our fresh perspective that we bring to it is that's not our version of FP and a. That's not the FP and a that's in fresh FP and a. That's not it. Financial planning analysis technology can do that. Technologies like Flow for your cash flow management and forecast.
Chris Ortega:Let that let them do that. Let the technology handle your financial planning and analysis where you really wanna be positioned. And the value you're gonna bring the business is being the financial partner and adviser. That's our version of the fresh FP and a side of it. And that's really where you're advising your clients to say, okay.
Chris Ortega:Like, look. We're gonna look at AP. Let's kinda flow some themes. Let's look and see how we could maybe put this on a credit card to get additional flow. Let's leverage some investment with our banking relationships to see how we can maybe secure a lot of credit that secures us for a a month of payroll.
Chris Ortega:These are all the things you need to be thinking about, and it all gets beyond the statement of cash flows. Right? It gets beyond that. And bringing in technology to help you do that analysis and be able to look at that, and that way you can have a advisory conversation with your clients, an advisory conversation with your business, an advisory conversation with the the CEO, business owner, or founder of the organization, that's the value add. And technology helps amplify the value that we bring from the financial planning analysis.
Chris Ortega:The technology can handle that. We, FreshFP and A, can do the financial partner and adviser. Now you've got an entire team that's focused on making sure that you're keeping 16 to 24 months in cash runway in your business. That's been my recipe around it.
Colin Hewitt:Yeah. Cool. And and and 16, 24 months, to be honest, that's a lot in my from I'm speaking to our customers. That's all. That's, like, the holy grail.
Colin Hewitt:You know? We we find, like, so many businesses in the UK, are certainly, like, operating at like, the average was something like 3 months runway. Yeah. And so it's just you know, and a big part of the reason we both slowed was because, you know, if you're doing a long term forecast and you only got 3 months runway in the banks, you need to see the in intra month, like, payments. You need to understand, like, what's happening in the 15th of the month whenever my payroll is about to go out.
Colin Hewitt:And those are the those are when it comes to a bit more of a crunch time. But, yeah, it certainly feels like we're on the same page about building the cash, building the cash reserves, building that cash position, And, that's where you wanna get to. So Absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, it's been fantastic to hear that.
Colin Hewitt:I I love the idea of that that partnership, model and letting the tools take care of the the lab work and and and coming in and telling the story, for the businesses. That's really what we need to know. That's really what we're looking for. So Yes. From from a business owner perspective, yeah, I love that, and, I hope that, maybe we get to work together one day.
Chris Ortega:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And for all those business owners, founders, CEOs that are gonna go back and look at the end of this video, my number one thing for you is listen. Technology is how finance scales.
Chris Ortega:Right? I I've been part of organizations. Colin, you lead organizations when when your when your business is growing, when flow is growing, you're not gonna look to your finance leader and be like, hey. Go hire more accountants and go hire more finance people. We don't scale.
Chris Ortega:We finance doesn't scale. We scale. And the biggest value that we're gonna have in the roles and responsibilities that we do, the value that we bring and the helping guide the future of our organizations, we have to move away from being technology laggards to technology adopters. So if you're looking for a forecasting, cash flow forecasting, budgeting, planning tool to help you get to that holy girl of that 16 highly recommend go check out Flow. I highly recommend go check out Flow.
Colin Hewitt:Chris, thanks so much.
Chris Ortega:Thank you so much, Colin. Thank you so much for your time, man.
